Namaskara,
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Regards, Hari
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Sree Krishnaaya Namaha
Dear Shri. Hariprasad,
I was so thrilled and pleased to read your excellent write up of our Lord Bhimasena. I have endured the foul falsehoods spread about our Acharya Lord Bhima for such a long time that I had lost all hope of ever finding like minded souls such as yourself, willing to spread the truth about him. By the Grace of Lord Krishna, I hope once again to visit Sree Krishna Matha in Udupi and Madhvacharya’s birthplace in Pajakashetra this January 2009. When I visited the home of our Acharya Madhva last year in Pajaka, I completely lost control and started crying because I could not believe that God had blessed me with the opportunity of visiting the birthplace of none other than the third avatar of Lord Mukhyaprana. One has to pass many births to get the grace of even having the wish to attain Acharya Madhva as one’s Guru.
You are doing great service to Lord Krishna and Acharya Madhva by extolling the virtues of our Lord Bhima. I pray that one day, everybody realises that the greatest Pandava was not Arjuna but Lord Bhima because he never questioned or disobeyed his master Lord Krishna even once. He always upheld Bhagavata Dharma of Lord Krishna and for that reason Lord Bhima’s name must forever be praised and held in the deepest reverence.
I wish you much success, happiness and eternal service to Lord Krishna and Acharya Madhva.
Jai Shree Ram !! Jai Hanuman !!
Best Wishes
Karthik
Namaskara Sri Karthik,
Many thanks for your kindest words. Yes, Lord Bhimasena is incomparably greater than the other Pandavas. Hopefully, in the coming years, we can bring out the real picture of this great Pandava and remove the misconceptions that exist in public minds today about Bhima being a glutton, fat person and so on.
Pajaka Kshetra is undergoing renovation currently. It may have been completed already. I am sure you will find a very ‘different’ Pajaka this time
Wish you all the best!
Regards, Hari
Namaskara shri hari,
excellent write up
chiraan
Namaskara Shri Hari: Great artcile on Shri Bhima. Thank you very much for your efforts.
Namaskara Shri Karthik Das: Your comments and esepcially your personal experience on Pajaka Kshethra moved me. I have resolved to myself that I must go and visit this most ausipicious place.
I was recently reading a book in English titled “Gita Sarroddhara” which is a collection of speeches by Shri Vishvesha teertha swamiji of the Pejawara matha, Udupi. In one of the speeches, Shri swamiji says that at the end of Kurukshethra battle, Dharmaraja asks his close associates about which Purusharatha among Dharma, Kama, Artha and Moksha is the most superior. People obviously praise the importance of Dharma, Artha and Mokhsa. Shri Bhimasena does not react and when Dharmaraja asks him, he astounds all by saying Kama is the most important. When Yudhishtira expresses his surprise and asks for an analysis, Shri Bhimasena tells him that without desire no Purushartha can be realized. One must have the desire to do Dharma or the desire to earn money rightfully (and use it for dharmic purposes) or the yearning to obtain Moksha by performing various good deeds. In other words, the most basic requirement is to have the Kaama to achieve something. Shri Bhimasena also tells the gathering, that the word Kaama is not to be interpreted in a negative manner – which usually happens – people think that kama means a selfish desire but Shri Bhima says that kama is our intrinsic desire (inner motivation) to obtain something (or to reach a goal) in a rightful manner.
This is a beautiful episode and I hope readers like it. If some one has similar examples of Shri Bhima’s greatness, I humbly request you to share it.
Namaskar Shri Hari,
Bheema mentions kama because Lord krishna declares in Geeta that he is desire in the soul .while explaining his vibhuti rupas.
One mention of Lord Bheema’s quality deserves mention is he known as Vrukodara, because he has a agni called Vruk in his stomach. Thus he ate a lot without [bahubhuk] any problem.
We all know that man gets hungry because of jatharagni in the intestines.This jathargni for men is about 1millionth of the edge of nail of the thumb.[size] . Even such tiny agni when it lits up , we become restless for food and cannot overcome it untill we have some thing or the other pushed into our mouth. this jatharagni when deeptha can make us feel eat everything on the platter , it causes water in our mouth , but when it is dabbed , we feel satisfied.
But Bheema had the vruk of the size of thumb itself. one can imagine what digestive power it could offer him . Even if whole universe is usurped by BHeema [which he does at Pralaya] , his hunger could not be satisfied.
Thus he is Vrukodara , who has the capability of holding such huge jatharagni in his belly and yet can remain in controll of hunger and other desires.
chiraan
Namaskara Sri Chiraan, Sri Raghu,
Many thanks for your valuable inputs on this topic. The page is getting even better with your insights.
Thanks again!
- Hari
Dear Hari,
Just to prove bhima is best Plz do not compare him with others like karna or ashwathama.Please go through entire mahabharata and then comment on other warriors.Karna uses only 1/10th of his power in battle ,owing to word given to kunti.This is stated by krishna at the end of war. Karna also spares arjuna s life twice during battle field.He defeats 4 pandava warriors on 15th day but sare their lives.(he defeats bhima ) Krishna himself states that no one can defeat karna unless one follows unjust means.
Ashwathama is also not an ordinary warrior. He had the power to burn arjuna alive through his arrows but krishna uses his power and because of hanuman on the flag , arjuna is saved. Ashwathama is the next veda vyas. So the next generation madhvas , including all our acharyas will be praying ashwathama. Just to explain bhima s greatness do not berate or comment others. All are unique in their own way. We need not rate them as no.1 or no.2 .Also we are not eligible enough to rate them . Leave this work to god.We are not god. Because you are a madhva that does nt mean , madhvacharya is the best and others are dumb. I am also born in a madhva family and am a stauch follower of SHRI VADIRAJA SWAMY. Only fools follow the path of self praise. Plz read all philosophies like advaitha , charvaka etc and then come to conclusion that dvaitha is best.This is good , but what u r doing is just extolling the greatness of ur favorite. Vivekananda , ramakrishna paramahamsa , shankaracharya have also seen and experienced god.They all followed advaithic way, so are they inferior to our madhva gurus? NO WAY. Everyone has his own way of approching and interpreting god.All are correct in their own way. This is what vadiraja swamy has preached. This is just a suggestion from me and I am no one to advice or preach u guys. I just put forth my opinion. Kindly let me know if u have any refutations.
Namaskara Pranav,
Your points would certainly be very valid if I had berated other philosophies or other warriors. Not just in this article, I do not berate other philosophies in this blog at all.
Similarly, with this particular article, I do not see where I have berated Karna, Ashwathama or other warriors. In fact, I have not even mentioned about Ashwathama anywhere.
I like Lord Bhimasena and this article is about the great qualities of that warrior. My article only sums up a few good qualities of Bhima. It DOES NOT berate anyone else.
>>”Just to explain bhima s greatness do not berate or comment others”.
Kindly let me know which part of this article berates others.
>>”Also we are not eligible enough to rate them”
I agree with your point that we are not eligible enough to rate people. I have not done that. Sri Madhvacharya and other great Swamis themselves have already done this. I have not created any new “measures” here or anywhere else. I am not qualified enough for that.
>>”but what u r doing is just extolling the >>greatness of ur favorite”
Yes, that is true. But I don’t see what is wrong with that. I like Dvaita philosophy and write about the nice things in that philosophy. I like Bhima and write about him.
>>” Only fools follow the path of self praise”
Not sure what constitutes self-praise according to you. Going by the same logic, all patriots would become fools because they like the country in which they are born.
>>”Plz read all philosophies like advaitha , >>charvaka etc and then come to conclusion >>that dvaitha is best”
You seem to have assumed that I have not read anything else.
>>”Everyone has his own way of approching and >>interpreting god.All are correct in their own >>way”
Most definitely. And this blog is about one such approach, that’s all.
Regards, Hari
Namaskar shri hari,
what is meant by staunch follower of vadiraj swamy, Followers follow everybit of advise and rules set by their gurus. Vadiraj swamy was first guru who explicitly berated other philosophies.[yuktimallika,shaiva sarvaswa khandana,Pashandavadkhandana] there is no proof that others have seen God or even realized him . Karna was defeated 22 times by Bheemasena in the mahabharath war , and when attacked he hid under the charriot [this even when he had shakti with him] had he not used shakti ,even ghatotkach would have finished him. even before Mahabharath Karna was defeated by Bheema [ he left him to live only for Arjun's sake] this karna himself tells to Duryodhana that he is alive somehow before Bheema by God’s grace.
Ashwatthama is superior to Arjuna ,hence if he has superceded him .
Next time our dear Madhva friend should refrain himself from calling himself staunch follower. Staunch followers put faith in guru’s word by both heart and brain[intelligence]. Our friend’s heart is elsewhere and only ears to Vadiraj guru.
karna was no hero
if you permit to give a link
http://chiraan.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/karna-the-unfortunate-jealous-and-egoistic-warrior
this article and discussion here will clear illusions about karna.
chiraan
Namaskara Sri Chiraan,
When I write my articles, I try to not create an impression about my beliefs at the cost of others. Which is why I found the previous comment on me berating Karna and Ashwathama strange. Thanks for this detailed reply by you. I fully agree with the points you have mentioned. In fact, I kept thinking about these exchanges yesterday and revisited Mahabharata (not just Tatparya Nirnaya). In Karna Parva alone, I found multiple instances of Karna being badly defeated. After every such episode, Dhritarashtra makes it a point to ask Sanjaya something to the effect of …”what happened after Karna had to retreat from the battle…”. But still, to say that Karna was defeated by Bhima does not constitute beration or insult to Karna.
As rightly said by our Guru “….Bheemasena samo nasti senayor ubhayorapi. Panditye cha patuthve cha shooratvepi balepi cha….”
This article simply subscribes (and whole heartedly at that) to the above declaration.
Thanks, Hari
ShriHari and Shri Chiraan: One should actually thank Shri Pranav for his comments because he provoked both of you to enlighten an ignoramus like me to learn so much more about our dear Shri Bhima.Thank you for the research you have done and may the Supreme Almighty Shri Hari bless you both.
One small doubt. In Chapter 10 of Gita, the Supreme Lord compares Himself to other noble things (which are anyways His creations) and declares that among Pandavas, He is Arjuna. (I think it is shloka 37). Can you throw some light on why He did not mention Shri Bheema and chose Arjuna instead. Thank you.
Both my ears and heart pay attention to my gurudev but i do not follow everything blindly like u .Vadiraja swamy says that one can take up any path which is convinient to him and not just accepting something because he has said it.A guru always teaches his students not what he wants to teach but what is convinient for his pupils. Vadiraja swamy has also done the same thing. He has never forced anyone to follow his views.Guru always teaches what is correct for his disciples ; just as Shankaracharya , though being an exponent of advaitha made his disciple totakacharya realise god in vedantic way and his disciple hastaamalaka in meemasa way. Vadiraja Gurudev has always taught to respect other gurus and sadgurus . Vadiraja swamy has said that one should believe in a point only after analysis and complete study.He had never set any rule for anyone. Love and respect is what he has taught everyone.This is what even raghavendra swamy said at the moment of his brindavana pravesha. People will laugh at u if u say vivekananda has not realised god.Even the incarnations of vishnu like Kapila and vamadeva followed advaitic way to realise god. Kapila muni was the one who founded samkhya philosophy. So if dvaita is correct then what about samkhya founded by kapila himself.
Veda vyas the so called guru of madhvacharya takes his son shuka to Shiva for getting initiated. He clearly declares that there is no guru equal to shiva. Agastya panchika has a conversation b/w vyas and agastya and declares that vyas was an ardent devotee of shiva.Recollect the vedic hymn ” shivaye vishnu roopaaya , shiva roopaaya vishnave ” Both shiva and vishnu are equal. But madhvaacharya has stated in his taratamya that vishnu is greatest.
Mr orthodox “shri hari ” chiraan madhva , first u shoud refrain calling urself a madhva . Just as someone cannot rule u to stop saying u r a madhva , U also do not have the right to ask me stop calling myself a devotee of vadiraja swamy.My being a devotee of vadiraja swamy is my identity and I truly follow my guru s word of doing study and analysis before accepting anything.
Donot you know that parashurama himself declared that karna is his equal.
Refer this link to know to know KARNA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karna
Mr Hari , I respect ur attempt to bring followers of Dvaita under one roof and letting them know many hidden and lost points of dvaita. Am Not at all bothered abt chiraan’s hurls at me . I greatly appreciate ur sense of being calm and strong and not getting provoked when someone refutes ur view. This is ur blog , so i stepback from this argument. If u like plz mail me at pranav.veenaraju@gmail.com to give me ur opinions and views . We can continue our argument via email . In this blog others are getting “provoked”
and are not keeping their cool like u do.
Namaskara Pranav,
Certainly I do not want my blog to become a battleground for arguments about the various philosophies. Also not for personal abuses and counter-arguments. You have given us your email address and any one interested in taking this discussion further – we will talk to you over personal email. I am sure Sri Chiraan did not mean any personal abuses to you.
Your comments on Dvaita philosophy are very “strong”, to say the least. You mention “Ved Vyas the so called guru of Madhvacharya”. I find it disturbing to take this comment on my blog. The discussion started with you mentioning that I was berating others on this blog, which I contested. The whole discussion is going astray now. Let us take it up over email, if necessary.
Regards, Hari
Namaskar Shri Hari,
Keeping in line with the soft line of approach [ which a gemini can rarely be] of Shri Hari , i shall restrict myself to just upholding Dvaita .
Firstly we must commend Shri Pranav from demoting himself from Staunch follower to just a devotee [who is still analysing his guru's words]. My advice is kindly don’t shy away from [refutation ,you had invited yourself , see last line of your previous comment].
Now let me highlight your confusion ,with flaws in your argument.
1. Dvaita is about sarvottamatva of Vishnu .[both Madhvacharya and Vadiraja as his follower unanimously agree without doubt.]
2.All avataras of Vishnu are one and the same .
3. Souls are/cannot be equal to God.
your flawed views,
1.incarnation of Vishnu took path to realise God [which god]
2.Parashurama vedvyasa ,Vishnu are one and supreme Paramatma.
3.Paramatma cannot and has not ever told that he is equal to Karna a jeeva.
your ref wikipidia is not authentic source ,now you have become ardent devotee of wikepidea also.
4.Kapila are two ,one of Vishnu and other normal, what you are referring is the jeeva kapila,Vishnu’s sankhya is repeated in Bhagavadgeeta ,it is acceptable and no different than Madhva.
5.There are certain Vedic hymns which declare Vishnu supreme , and next all names are of Vishnu so ,shiva the name is Vishnu’s not the shiva the Jeeva. [ quote from Shaiva philosphy 's refutation by Vadiraja ]
even when Vadiraja swamy has said Shivais not equal to Vishnu ,Vishnu is greater , if you say it is not so , are you with your guru [ you are challenging your guru's words strongly , and also guru's guru's [Madhvacharya]words you are disputing .
analysing doesn’t mean accepting one and all sundry.
Come up with some logical refutation . Discussing coyly in a email will serve no purpose .
Shri Hari do not moderate this comment ,
As MAunam sammat lakshanam , [silence to a act anti is also a sin]
——————————————————
Shri Raghu ,
I agree with you on thanking Shri Pranav ,he has brought out certain issues which need introspection.
Regarding Arjuna,
Bheemasena has one distinct quality ,[ his opinion is never different from that of Lord].Lord never disagrees with Mukhyaprana.
So he is not among the suffering souls.
The sufferance Starts Shiva onwards , Arjuna is the highest among the jeeva[dukhparampara] which required sermon ,he had a amsa of Narayana [nara narayana].
which ever quality is found greatest in any group Krishna is present there.
chiraan
Namaskara Sri Chiraan,
Just like Sri Madhva, Sri Vadiraja Swamy also emphasized on analysis and understanding because “Tattvavada” gives maximum importance to “Anubhava” over everything else. This guidance applies to finding a way to realize GOD. But, this definitely does not mean that any way is acceptable.
Not just in his works, even in shlokas written by Sri Vadiraja Swamy, Vishnu Sarvottamatva and Vayu Jeevottamatva (and other Tattvavada tenets) are brought out very strongly.
Thanks for your inputs in the above comment. Your comments on my blog are indeed very valuable.
Rudra devaru certainly has a very high position in Dvaita philosophy. Rudra upasane is also very important to us. Worshipping devatas according to their taratamya is certainly something Madhvas follow. Even in the Vishnu Sahasranama, Vishnu is called as Rudra, Esha, Shankara, Shambhu, etc.
Regards, Hari
Namaskar shri Hari ,
Yes without doubt ,Rudradevaru has a highest position among the souls after parshuklatraya.
Without his blessings devotion[amlabhakti] is just not possible .Even Arjuna was sent to Indrakeel parvat by Vedavyasa for rudropasana with upadesha of roudri mantra.
even in peetha pooja rudra is prayed twice as vairagya , and absence of it. Shuka[incarnation of Shiva] is still held as the highest example of vairagya. He is the one who has given us all sweet phala of Bhagavat.
I agree with you that discission was going astray , as it started with a madhva analysing some other tatva , then madhva garb was thrown off and Advaiti appeared ,suddenly these inner wears were also shed and came Hariharamata [shiva vishnu aikya] ,i think next would be an appearance for JGK, follow none ,follow your heart .
It was neccessary to remind that this page is about Greatness of BHeema .
Mukhyaprana is father and Guru of Shiva .
It was mukhyaprana who had primarily drunk the halahal and gave a pint to Shiva and Shiva became neelkantha.
Thank you for bringing back the discussion.
Chiraan
errarta:
Namaskara Shri Hari ,
grab :- garb
kindly moderate the spelling mistakes
and Namaskara [address] , its a typo mistake.
Hmmmm …. this article is now many months old….but, I still could not resist the temptation( to comment ). After all, the champion of champions, Draupadi( Bharatidevi )-ramana-Bheemasena is involved !!!
Most points, though, are directed at the misinformed Pranav.
1. A debate based on logic( tatva vaada ) is one of the best ways to learn the eternal truth. Hence before a mentioned point( like the one by Shri Hariprasad, which bespeaks of quality research )is disseminated for unwarranted and provocative debates, the logic( tatva ) of the debater should first be sown in the right soil of knowledge, and should only be used for a debate once it is fully sprouted. Alas ! Not only is Mr.Pranav’s arguments premature sprouts, but also seems sown in the soil of andhakaara.
2. Secondly, DVAITA philosophy emphasizes the importance of calling a spade, A SPADE. Which means, it doesnt matter if, in the process some feelings get hurt( in any case, only the agnanis would feel hurt, the ones who have the yogyatha would feel elated ), what remains most important, in this regard, is to HIGHLIGHT Bheemasena’s might.
( to be contd … )
Shri Hari.
My salutations. Respected Sir in my humble opinon the Stanza of Sri Krishna in the Gita – I am Arjuna among the Pandavas is proof that its Arjun who is Supreme among the Pandavas. Even Lord Shivas boon to Jayadratha included Bhima excluded Arjuna -that one day he will check the formation of Pandavas.
Jayadratha was a last minute development infacat seeing the Chakravyooha Bhima was as tranfixed as the remaining Pandavs and Abhimanyu was sent in. Later on Pandavs were stopped by Jayadrath. In Dronas ashrama Bhim also gave the unimpressive answer like that he could see everything including the birds eye. Bhim was the greatest devotee but cannot be compared to Arjuna
best regards
Niraj